Transcript
Sustainability Inspires Catherine Bradley
Amanda Young
Hello, I'm Amanda Young. You are listening to the abrdn Sustainability Inspires Podcast discussing all things relating to sustainable investing.
Today we're talking about the unstoppable force of women and their role in finance. And I cannot think of a better guest to have and Catherine Bradley, welcome to our podcast, Catherine.
Catherine Bradley
Good morning, Amanda. Thank you for having me.
Amanda Young
So, let me start by telling you a little bit about Catherine. We are extremely lucky at abrdn to have had her appointed to our board in January 2022. She brings with her more than 30 years of experience in financial services, which includes executive experience advising global financial institutions, and industrial companies on complex transactions and strategic opportunities. She brings knowledge from working across Europe and Asia, serving on boards of leading consumer facing companies and working with regulators and standard setters. Catherine holds a number of non-executive positions including at Johnson Electric Holdings, Easyjet and Kingfisher. Now, in her career, Catherine has served on the boards of leading industrial consumer facing companies in a number of countries UK, France and Hong Kong, and she was appointed by her majesty's treasury to the board of the Financial Conduct Authority in 2014, and played an important role in establishing the FICC market standards board in 2015. At the FCA, Catherine was chair of the audit committee, a member of the nomination and risk committees and a whistleblower champion for the FCA staff. Katherine stepped down from these boards in 2020, and between 2021 and 2022. She was also a board member of the value reporting foundation where she co-chaired the order committee. Now in her executive career, Catherine held a number of senior finance roles in investment banking, and risk management in the US with Merrill Lynch in the UK and Asia with Credit Suisse, and finally in Asia with Société Générale. She returned to Europe in 2014 to start her non-executive career. Prior to her career starting she graduated from the H. E. C. Paris School of Management with a Major in Finance and International Economics and was awarded a CBE in 2019 for public service. Now outside are for her illustrious career, Catherine is interested in pottery, as well as her soon to be four granddaughters. So welcome, and let's start the conversation with a really interesting question Catherine a bachelor hobby making pottery. Now you probably don't know this, but I'm a secret fan of the great pottery throw down on television. So I would love to hear about what interests you in poetry, and the things you most enjoy making.
Catherine Bradley
I learned poetry when I was in Asia. And now I continue I go to a studio where on the Isle of Wight where we've got a small cottage. I love it because it's humbling. You never know how things will turn out. You use your hands, not your brains. And also, it makes you to chat with local people just understand what their priorities what their needs are. It's magic. Be careful, Amanda, if I know when your birthday is, you might end up getting very shabby chic salad bowl.
Amanda Young
I forgot love a shabby chic salad bowl. Thank you so much. Now you've had an illustrious career in financial services. Can you tell us a little bit about how you got into financial services and maybe the different things that you have done.
Catherine Bradley
The whole family were medics for several generations. So, I knew I didn't want to be a medic. I was meant to be an engineer. But that meant focusing very too quickly on math on very scientific topics. And I didn't want to give a business affairs. So, I turned to business instead. Started my life I've got a strong French accent, but I've never worked in France. I started in in the US then in the UK. And then finally Asia for six years. What has always kept me going is a strong structurer. So, it's strong structuring skills, maybe from the engineering days, and then you apply it to people I was in charge of all my life of what you use derivatives to fulfil corporate big companies, plans like m&a or other corporate actions. So, it's always working the beginning of the week with CEOs having the emotional skills to understand what they really wanted to achieve, and then the rest of the week trying to de risk it. So that has kept me going all my life more and more senior, but always clinging to the strong technical knowledge.
Amanda Young
Now, today's sustainability topic is around women and finance and in particular your career from executive to non-executive. Many women and men listening to this will be interested in understanding how you transitioned out of these executive positions that you've been talking about and into the non-executive space. Perhaps you can tell us a little bit about your own career change. And what were the things that surprised you, or things you feel people should look out for?
Catherine Bradley
Well, the first thing is, is a word of warning, non-exec career is not suited for everybody why you're no longer in the driving seat, you're no longer a CEO or head of strategy or whatever. What you do is that you empower people to maybe perhaps do the right thing, you've got to devise to make sure they implement the right strategy. So, if you're still kind of a race horse and greyhound loving to get success, and loving to be complimented for your success, it might not be for you. Also, especially in the UK, and some European countries, and in the US, there is a heavy level of regulations compliance, especially if you work for a financial institution. So first is a word of caution. But it's been said, in my case, it's been a huge joy. You discover when you move to unknown exact sec, you know many more things and your narrow field of expertise. It's a joy also to work in other sectors, and the joy to move further and further away from your comfort zone. It's a joy also to keep working with different generations with different kinds of people. Suddenly, I've become a guru in sustainability, I hope and in digital. In all kinds of other things. So, I would say test yourself while you're still in executive career, and because there is ageism, start taking a first roll, see how you would like it, so that you don't have to make a sudden plunge from non-exec to Exec? Or the other way around. Sorry.
Amanda Young
No, that's really helpful. I think there's many people who believe that this is a career path, but I like your guidance that is not for everybody. And so perhaps you can touch now on what it's been like being a woman in finance, particularly in Asia, you spent many years out there. What are the challenges you faced? And how did you learn to navigate the gender and the diversity defined in Asia? And what have you seen over the past three decades in terms of change?
Catherine Bradley
Yes, I mean, I was aware of diversity and having been the only woman for many, many years in my career, without any role model without anybody to look up to. But Asia was especially useful for me because then I was in the minority seat. And you always always for diversity you have to make to go the extra the extra length, you have to put yourself in the shoes of whoever the whoever is opposite you. Whenever I was walking into a Chinese meeting, I always had to remind myself, you're a woman and you're French. Why because in my eyes, I was a business person, and I was making things happen. But you have to remember how you look to other people what they might feel. And then you can also a big rule is always try to change your own behaviour towards them, not always expecting them to change you. When you're in Asia, you're gweilo you know, gweilo, you're a foreigner, many a Westerner, you're white ghost. So, you've always got to remember, and it's good. I think for any lessons in life, how do I look to other people. And then once I've understood their standpoint, maybe I can help to change it pave the way show that I'm more than just a French white woman. And we can move move further away. So, it's been very helpful to me all my life after that you do the first step towards people, and hopefully, diversity and inclusion can happen.
Amanda Young
So, it's very much about adapting to your environment, which I just think is a wonderful way to approach it. Now, I've often heard women complain that promotions go to men who spend a lot of time chit chatting at the watercooler while they just get their heads down and carry on working to deliver. I've heard you touch on this in the past the importance for developing soft skills beyond just an output and delivery in the workplace. Maybe you can touch on that and what you've learned in your career from those soft skills.
Catherine Bradley
Yeah, this is not a very positive picture. Because if you look especially so on the way I've been on it jittering boards WS Atkins I was on the board of Peugeot the car company, or at Abrdn, or even I mean in other sector, when you look at what happens to women age, let's say 25 to 35. And beyond, you still have the same stats, extremely low retention and women not getting there. So, there are several problems. One, it could be I mean, we women, what we do ourselves, often, I mean, it's dangerous to make a stereotype. But often as women, we feel oh, because I've got a good job. Surely people, we spotted it, and surely, I'll be rewarded for it. It's clearly not enough. And I mean, the same would apply to a man as well. You need certainly to blow your horn, you need certainly, to make sure. I mean, whether even if you're fantastic, you need to make sure people are aware of it. And another key thing is, are you very honest, do people know what you want? Do you yourself? Do you know what you want? Do you want the next job? Do you want the next promotion? And if you if yes, have you clearly mentioned it, have you clearly said that it's a goal of yours, I find somehow, especially when the more women, we spend our time having a puzzle, we want the kids to be happy, we want the partner to be happy. It's a puzzle. And as soon as a piece of the puzzle falls off where it's difficult. So as a result, we tend to just make do instead of always having the next goal in mind. So, I would say don't hesitate to anchor what your next move should be, make it known. And you don't need to be by the cooler, but suddenly have conversations with colleagues. Don't be shy.
Amanda Young
That's really helpful to hear you speak of that need to actually challenge yourself and work out what it is you want. Now, you've just alluded to this, but one of the challenges many woman faces that balance between family and work. This is often because much of the home, and childcare still falls onto women, even those who are working full time. And we saw that and sort of really exacerbated during COVID. How did you manage it in your own career? And do you have any top tips that you can impart to working mothers?
Catherine Bradley
So, I think things have improved. Yeah, at least during my days, I don't think my husband had a clue where the nappies were left actually, really down to me and down to the helper. Whereas I see my son, I see my son in law, they are completely interchangeable with their wives with their partners, they just need to at least now the childcare when these two two person and a couple. The childcare is, is spread, but it's just immensely difficult. I find, especially in the UK, childcare is very expensive. I mean it's a tough decision to decide to go to work or to stay at home to take care of your child. And I see with my daughters, the school stops at 3.30pm. So what do you do between 3.30pm and six? Well, again, you pay somebody to take care of it. So now it's easier because partners do team effort when they are together if there are partners, but definitely the government should help more. And then I think what really helped me on my life was I didn't have much time with the children because I was travelling a lot, but I always make sure that the time with them was quality time it was BlackBerry's in these days it's iPhone now but don't show your child that you prefer your phone compared to your to your child. And in my case, what saved me was a scooter or motorbike I had a motorbike for seven years. Why? Because in London I mean it can be takes a long time and it's predictable to come to the other side of the town to attend the Christmas Carol. So, I had a scooter and that's made me attend every single child event at the school and then go back to work if I had to.
Amanda Young
really practical piece of advice get a scooter so you don't miss out on on the child recitals. Absolutely fantastic.
Catherine Bradley
As a warning, wear your helmet.
Amanda Young
Yes, but wear your helmet, absolutely. Now we're at that stage in the podcast where I ask my guests for something to inspire our listeners on sustainability its normally a book of film or an experience. And now well today's sustainability topic is about gender diversity and inclusion. I would love you to tell our listeners what inspired you on the broader sustainability agenda. Believe it's a film, perhaps something that happened over a decade ago?
Catherine Bradley
Yes, that's going to show my age. But what really got me I me, we all think that sustainable is a new thing. But what really got me going was when I was, I think it was in 2009 in Asia, and I went with clients to see a film by Al Gore called the Inconvenient Truth. And it was quite candid, powerful. It was an informative document. It was shocking. And it was he was trying to use intelligence rather than fear. So, it's a bit passe. And the star was a bit the kind of like a prophetic sermon of what would happen. But it just gets me going ever since. What can we do in our daily life to save the planet? So that will keep me going.
Amanda Young
That's wonderful to hear. That is great to know that that film did inspire people and the way it has done. Now, as we draw to the end of our podcast, can we perhaps touch on what your hopes and ambitions are for continued progress and equality across financial services? So, if you had a crystal ball and could wish for anything, what would it be?
Catherine Bradley
I would like women to enjoy themselves. Things are better things are getting better. I'm sure one day we won't need any quotas. We're talking about women, but I'm talking about any minority. Ideally, we won't have to talk about that anyway, we'll just have matched we'll just have made sure that we had the right nursery the right skills, we started seeing soon enough for the best people to come for the job. At the moment, it's still too much for instead of a case where we rushed to get a headhunter to get us to find the right people, or we rush to grow to pinch people from a competitor. I do think I do wish that we will do long term efforts, getting people from minority backgrounds or varied backgrounds, but get reaching out to them when they are 10 when they're 15. So that by the time they are 40, they are the CEOs of our of our companies.
Amanda Young
Absolutely brilliant. So, I've got one final question. What's the one piece of advice if you had it to give women listening to you today?
Catherine Bradley
That's advice I've learned actually during COVID. V I’m on the board of EasyJet, for instance. And we had some real crises to manage. So, I'll just say, three, three steps. And we can use the same one we are late to pick up our kids or when there is a need for a rights issue anything. Step one, do not panic. We always tend to panic to worry, block it. Step two, do what is needed. If you're good, you always know what you need to do to solve the problem. And step three, treat others with respect. Even when things are tough, even when you're unhappy, even when you think she should get much, much better. treat others with respect. And then since we'll get right, these are the three recipes I use all the time and it works and I enjoy myself.
Amanda Young
I'm definitely going to remember not to panic, do what's needed and treat others with respect. What a great podcast from scooters, to pottery, and not panicking. So, Catherine, thank you so much for being with us today. It's been an absolute delight to have you with us.
Catherine Bradley
Thank you, Amanda. Same here. Goodbye and my best best wishes for abrdn colleagues.
Amanda Young
You been listening to the abrdn podcast Sustainability Inspires aiming to help you get inspired and get involved. To all those who have taken time to tune in many thanks for listening. You can find all of our podcasts on our website. Tune in to our next podcast where either Eva Cairns speaks to Professor Martin Stuchtey who joins us to discuss the value of natural capital and its role in sustainable future until then, goodbye for now.
Disclaimer
This podcast is provided for general information only and assumes a certain level of knowledge of financial markets. It is provided for informational purposes only and should not be considered as an offer investment recommendation or solicitation to deal in any of the investments or products mentioned herein and does not constitute investment research. The views in this podcast are those of the contributors at the time of publication and do not necessarily reflect those of Abrdn. The companies discussed in this podcast have been selected for illustrative purposes only, or to demonstrate our investment management style and not as an investment recommendation or indication of their future performance. The value of investments and the income from them can go down as well as up and investors may get back less than the amount invested. Past performance is not a guide to future returns, return projections or estimates and provide no guarantee of future results.
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